John Wesley and Prayer: Lunacy or Perfection?
"God does nothing except in response to believing prayer."
Take a long hard gander at that. Really read it. Ruminate on it. Mull it over.
I certainly did. And I didn't like it at all.
Now I'm not going to tell you where I found this quote (OMS), nor how often I see it (all the time). But I was curious about its origin, because surely such an inflammatory statement had to be heretical, or at the very least, misquoted.
You know what I found? You know who the miscreant is?
John Wesley.
Sweet baby Jesus in the manger.
Now I like John Wesley as much as the next Protestant. You can't say a bad word about him (especially when you work for a holiness mission agency.)
But I had to wonder if even he had overstepped his bounds a little with this statement.
I did what I always do when I come across something suspect. I Googled it. A lot. Here's what I found:
It's possible we've moved a bit too far in the other direction. (Incidentally, if you get curious and decide to read the article, let me know what conclusions you come to. I know how I'd answer him, but I'm curious about your own experiences with this kind of argument.)
Finally, I found something that offered context for the quote. It comes from "A Plain Account of Christian Perfection," written by Wesley somewhere between 1725 and 1777.
I skimmed through the document and found much of interest. (Notably that Wesley apparently did not originally like the term Methodist.) Honestly, the thing is long, and it takes a while before he says the above quote. He includes a lot of hymns, too. I think it's supposed to be like the Methodist Manifesto.
Anyway, his main gist is that it's totally possible for Christians to achieve perfection in this life. He defines perfection as "loving God with all our heart, and mind, and soul" and that this means any "inward sin is taken away."
(I happen to agree with Wesley that it's possible to achieve perfection in this life. However, like him I also believe that few, if any, have actually done this.)
Finally, we get to the infamous quote. (Which actually reads "God does nothing but in response to prayer." Is it very different? No. But I believe in accuracy.) I was not assuaged by what I read. It wasn't an error.
Here's what he says immediately before: "God hardly gives his Spirit even to those whom he has established in grace, if they do not pray for it on all occasions, not only once, but many times."
And immediately after: "Even they who have been converted to God without praying for it themselves, (which exceeding rare,) were not without the prayers of others. Every new victory which a soul gains is the effect of a new prayer."
Wow.
Confession time: I may have blurted out "This man is a lunatic!" in the middle of the office.
I'm trying not to be derailed by those statements. I think they are utterly wrong, and I have no idea what he was thinking when he wrote them, but this post is about prayer, so he's getting a pass.
I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, here. I'm trying to remember that he wrote/lived in a different time, that he doesn't really define what he means by prayer, and that I may actually be way off base here.
I'll also be the first to admit that I have a tenuous relationship with prayer. I tend to think the benefit is to the pray-er more than the pray-ee. I'm less inclined to see a direct link between my prayer and the subsequent action. I try to attribute those actions to their actual source, which is God.
Do I think God prompts us to pray for certain things? Yes. In His time, when He's ready to move, He puts things on people's hearts so that they are prepared for the work ahead.
Do I also think God tells us to stop praying for things? Yes. And we would do well to listen. A 'no' is still an answer, and we can waste a lot of time chasing after things that are never going to happen.
Wesley obviously believed prayer was important. I mentioned that this quote is mainly used next to a subsequent sentence about him praying for two hours every day. And I can't really argue about prayer being important. It's mentioned a lot in the Bible, Jesus taught how us to pray, and he told us to do it without ceasing.
But I think people can overemphasize the power of prayer. It becomes a work, something we have to do to be saved, and that is totally contrary to the Christian faith. There are so many times I have to bite my tongue before I say something that will undoubtedly get me in trouble.
I just can't get behind the idea that it is our prayers that prompt God to act, and that without them, He can do nothing. Because that's what I think is implied in this quote. I refuse to limit God that way. He does what He wills, whether we've prayed for it or not. His actions are not contingent on my faith.
(Rabbit trail: This was a storyline on Stargate: SG-1. These aliens had created a religion and had enslaved millions of people because their powers were fed by people. So the more people who believed, the more powerful they became, and the more people they could enslave. Actually, I think this was the plot of the TV movie about Merlin, too. And now I've totally lost you.)
Ironically (is this actual irony or am I being American and not getting the concept of irony?), I'm going to leave you with a verse about prayer. This is one I fully support and practice as often as I can.
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6-7
Take a long hard gander at that. Really read it. Ruminate on it. Mull it over.
I certainly did. And I didn't like it at all.
Now I'm not going to tell you where I found this quote (OMS), nor how often I see it (all the time). But I was curious about its origin, because surely such an inflammatory statement had to be heretical, or at the very least, misquoted.
You know what I found? You know who the miscreant is?
John Wesley.
Sweet baby Jesus in the manger.
Now I like John Wesley as much as the next Protestant. You can't say a bad word about him (especially when you work for a holiness mission agency.)
But I had to wonder if even he had overstepped his bounds a little with this statement.
I did what I always do when I come across something suspect. I Googled it. A lot. Here's what I found:
- Just about every Wesleyan thing (college, church, mission) has this quote on their website. Usually without qualification or corresponding text, other than to say that prayer is very important.
- A few books have quoted Wesley, again to emphasize the importance of prayer. They usually mention that Wesley spent two hours a day or more in persistent prayer.
- A Methodist church in Iowa produced a 14-page document on the proper posture, type, wording, time, and place of prayer.
- One link sent me to a page written by someone at serveOK.org, which I figured had something to do with Oklahoma, but I thought also might be the slacker's response to missions. We'll serve, but only OK. Also, they offered me free decals, but when I clicked the link, they said too many people had ordered them.
Okay.
- I knew Patheos wouldn't fail me, and sure enough, on the atheist channel I saw an article entitled "Nothing Fails Like Prayer."
It's possible we've moved a bit too far in the other direction. (Incidentally, if you get curious and decide to read the article, let me know what conclusions you come to. I know how I'd answer him, but I'm curious about your own experiences with this kind of argument.)
Finally, I found something that offered context for the quote. It comes from "A Plain Account of Christian Perfection," written by Wesley somewhere between 1725 and 1777.
I skimmed through the document and found much of interest. (Notably that Wesley apparently did not originally like the term Methodist.) Honestly, the thing is long, and it takes a while before he says the above quote. He includes a lot of hymns, too. I think it's supposed to be like the Methodist Manifesto.
Anyway, his main gist is that it's totally possible for Christians to achieve perfection in this life. He defines perfection as "loving God with all our heart, and mind, and soul" and that this means any "inward sin is taken away."
(I happen to agree with Wesley that it's possible to achieve perfection in this life. However, like him I also believe that few, if any, have actually done this.)
Finally, we get to the infamous quote. (Which actually reads "God does nothing but in response to prayer." Is it very different? No. But I believe in accuracy.) I was not assuaged by what I read. It wasn't an error.
Here's what he says immediately before: "God hardly gives his Spirit even to those whom he has established in grace, if they do not pray for it on all occasions, not only once, but many times."
And immediately after: "Even they who have been converted to God without praying for it themselves, (which exceeding rare,) were not without the prayers of others. Every new victory which a soul gains is the effect of a new prayer."
Wow.
Confession time: I may have blurted out "This man is a lunatic!" in the middle of the office.
I'm trying not to be derailed by those statements. I think they are utterly wrong, and I have no idea what he was thinking when he wrote them, but this post is about prayer, so he's getting a pass.
I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, here. I'm trying to remember that he wrote/lived in a different time, that he doesn't really define what he means by prayer, and that I may actually be way off base here.
I'll also be the first to admit that I have a tenuous relationship with prayer. I tend to think the benefit is to the pray-er more than the pray-ee. I'm less inclined to see a direct link between my prayer and the subsequent action. I try to attribute those actions to their actual source, which is God.
Do I think God prompts us to pray for certain things? Yes. In His time, when He's ready to move, He puts things on people's hearts so that they are prepared for the work ahead.
Do I also think God tells us to stop praying for things? Yes. And we would do well to listen. A 'no' is still an answer, and we can waste a lot of time chasing after things that are never going to happen.
Wesley obviously believed prayer was important. I mentioned that this quote is mainly used next to a subsequent sentence about him praying for two hours every day. And I can't really argue about prayer being important. It's mentioned a lot in the Bible, Jesus taught how us to pray, and he told us to do it without ceasing.
But I think people can overemphasize the power of prayer. It becomes a work, something we have to do to be saved, and that is totally contrary to the Christian faith. There are so many times I have to bite my tongue before I say something that will undoubtedly get me in trouble.
I just can't get behind the idea that it is our prayers that prompt God to act, and that without them, He can do nothing. Because that's what I think is implied in this quote. I refuse to limit God that way. He does what He wills, whether we've prayed for it or not. His actions are not contingent on my faith.
(Rabbit trail: This was a storyline on Stargate: SG-1. These aliens had created a religion and had enslaved millions of people because their powers were fed by people. So the more people who believed, the more powerful they became, and the more people they could enslave. Actually, I think this was the plot of the TV movie about Merlin, too. And now I've totally lost you.)
Ironically (is this actual irony or am I being American and not getting the concept of irony?), I'm going to leave you with a verse about prayer. This is one I fully support and practice as often as I can.
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6-7